The Thenx Ladies have been intentionally creating and holding safe and yet electric space, where both political and personal truths can not only be witnessed but also, where they can be critically and holistically engaged with, through the candid nature of satire and the aliveness of its often by-product – laughter. For over the past decade, MoMo Matsunyane, Kitty Moepang and Tumy Motsoatsoe have seeded and continue to water a commitment to their practice of sharing satirical sketches that at their crux (regardless of its ever-changing nature), always prioritize the explicative mirroring of society, back to itself.
I was absolutely delighted to have been in conversation with the Thenx Ladies themselves. I was met with such warmth and a sincere openness to generously talk to me about their deep synergy and work as a collective, how it came to be, and what it has come to mean for each of them, even outside of Thenx itself.
I dove in right away with a few questions to the ladies. “They’re not hard” I say trying to ease Tumy’s earlier concern. “I promise. I don’t think I have a hard question at all” Tumy was joking, of course. That was the atmosphere. One of a warm friendship felt even behind our computer screens.
Many of my own personal contemplative and (mostly) agreeing (hmm) interjections have been omitted throughout the conversation, but yours are more than welcome. You will find that they are almost as mandatory, as they are innate.
“Yoh, thenx” and the Thenx Ladies Practice
So, you have been described (in previous interviews) as “a collective of actors who share and present satirical sketches across a range of topics, experiences and issues, rooted in holding a critical mirror up to society”. That’s what your practice is essentially understood as and has been experienced to be for the past decade and a bit now. Eleven years to be exact. How would you say that definition has shifted? Has it changed in any way? Or maybe, expanded?
Tumy: I’m happy to go first. I think the beautiful thing about Thenx is that our ‘why’ has never shifted. Well, not ‘never shifted’. I think it’s deepened. It’s become clearer for us. Initially, when we started, we were angry. We were frustrated. We were excited as well – there were so many stories we wanted to tell. Stories that are true to our own lived experiences, the experiences of those around us, of those who came before us. I wanted to tell those stories. You could say that’s a reflection of society – our mothers, women in leadership, homeless people on the street, politicians etc.
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I think a lot of people can capture society, a lot of artists do that, but we were very clear that we wanted our audiences to critically engage with their own stories and the stories of others. That, in my view, has never shifted. Regardless of where we are performing. We want to spark dialogue. We want to provoke thought. I don’t remember a show, whether it was the Comic’s Choice Awards that we hosted, the Vernacular Spectacular, our Ted Talk, or even a small adaptation on a stage somewhere in a corporate – every time you see us perform, every time we go back to our practice, our constant true north has always been – will this hold up a critical mirror to society? Will this spark thought? Will this make people think “ah that’s me” or “that’s somebody I know” and, after seeing that, “how do I engage with this new realisation?”.
So, it has not changed. That’s what is so beautiful about it – every time we go back, we say, “is this true to Thenx” and if it’s not, we don’t do it. We always go back to its true form – using satire, parody, and harmonies to tell stories that really get you thinking.
Why ‘Thenx’ and how did it come about?
Tumy, Kitty and MoMo ensue the zoom call with laughter and in anticipation, I can’t help but join in.
And, spelt in that way?
The laughter hushes, almost simultaneously.
Tumy: MoMo must take this one!
MoMo: This is such a difficult one! This is such a difficult question.
Okay so, we met in university and… I think more than high school, university is a lot of identity-grooming and growth, and identification with like-minded people, people you feel comfortable with. We started spending a lot of time together when we realised… how much humour we got from a lot of the tragedy of our lives, right? So, we would essentially pick fun at our own lives and laugh at ourselves and the hardships that we have experienced, from our poverty triggers to laughing about our parents and parental style, their lack of awareness sometimes, our daddy issues and our mommy issues…
It became a safe space to share one’s pain and I think as a degree of ‘measuring’ the pain, once one said “Yoh, thenx” –
The laughter crackles once more.
It was almost like…it hit the spot. So, saying ‘thenx’ was almost a way of validating those experiences, as painful as they were sometimes, and as tragic as they were, but they were also the same things that made us the artists that we were (in university), and the artists that were drawn to one another’s experiences so much so that we felt the need to start creating out of this tragedy, and to celebrate this tragedy and pain, to learn. So, we began laughing at ourselves before we began laughing at society. Many iterations of “guys, let’s just give thenx” – whether it’s ‘thenx’ that we’re still here, ‘thenx’ for the opportunity that we’re provided (to be here and get to study what we love) and the opportunity to get to speak about the world that we live in.
Thenx represents a safe space, a space where you are held. Even today, when we get together, you can purge and say things that I don’t even think one would feel comfortable to say, with other people. Of course, we’ve got other friends and other confidants, but the Thenx space. There’s just something about it being so utterly free that serves us in our creation process. That freedom is what allows us to ‘gooi’ and dig deep.
How did you get to a point of agreement? “We’re all in it, and now we are still here. 11 years since that decision.”
Kitty: One common thing we have always spoken about is how it almost felt like Thenx chose us, and it happened to us. They were in fact six of us when we started. There was Zethu Dlomo, Lwando Mavi, Tsholo Phiri. We were then asked to perform as part of the orientation programme for the ‘Wits’ (University of Witwatersrand) first years – put on a play and just kind of take them through campus life, and it was an actual hit! But at some point, the four ladies (including Zethu Dlomo at the time), we chose to take the reins and mould it, and sculpture it into something that we wanted to do, to be, to look like and especially, sound like. It’s a gift. We found what works and have now evolved it into these three women who perform this comedy, this satire, and take audiences through so many journeys. That’s how I think it chose us.
Would you two also say that this happened to and for you?
Tumy: It’s not easy being here Ketsia. It’s not easy, because as MoMo said, this is home and home is complex. This is the one place where you can’t hide. That’s a gift, but it’s also a challenge – even when you’re going through the hardest times in your relationship, in your own personal journey, your own identity…whatever demons you are grappling with, these ladies will see them. We create space for us to confront them, so that even as we hold space for our audiences, we know that we have done the clearing, right? If we are going to show up as vessels, allowing these stories to travel through us, we ourselves need to make sure that we can check in with ourselves.
The process of being a Thenx Lady is not glamorous, at all. It’s beautiful when we are performing but the clearing and the unlearning, the ‘having to show up’, the honesty, the dialogue! There have been moments of needing space from each other, or something happens with one of us and we need a time out, just for two months… I mean, it’s 10 years. We met in varsity. Some of us have had children. There have been changes in jobs. There have been relationships. There have been marriages. Life has happened and life does happen. So, we have also created a space of autonomy and agency in the group, where you know that you can come here when you can, and that when you do show up you know what is required.
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I like what she (Kitty) said, that Thenx chose us. I feel like every single play also chooses who is going to perform it and how it’s going to be performed. So, that clearing is important. Once we say ‘yes’ to the play, to a space, a venue, a theatre, to a character, you need to be able to commit. Remember, we don’t have a director. We don’t have a manager. We don’t have a stage manager. We have only just had a stage manager, in the past couple of years because we realised that we can’t hold too many things. It’s a lot to juggle and we have been intentional about creating that boundary between this and many other distractions, so that when we do show up, we can be fully present because part of it is that the healing, that unlearning, that unravelling, the growth pieces, do also need one who is present. Fully present. It’s a really beautiful challenge.
MoMo: We grow through this process as well. Thenx changes and its meaning to different people changes. We’ve had to negotiate very carefully, often with tears, (often very painfully) but I am so humbled by our ability to come together, and to look past all our challenges because of the freedom that this space allows us. When Thenx calls, you’re like “Hmm, it’s time. I am there”. I am super proud to be apart of this ensemble.
“Ah. That is so beautiful. Yoh. I’m trying to take notes, but I am just processing everything people are saying. I’m so in it.” I say out loud. The laughter rumbles yet again.
Tumy: You have the recording!
I could not help but giggle, at having forgotten that I was indeed recording this for the purpose of this piece and almost as if Zoom had grown envious of the fun we were having in this exchange, the timer ran out and we got cut off.
However, in the couple minutes of silence (before we re-joined), something dawns on me. The Thenx Ladies’ adaptative and yet consistently intentional approach towards the commitment to their collective work and tending of their fervent synergy, is resemblant of the artistic form of satire itself. Its exercise allows for human and individual behaviour, vices, and follies to be reflected to us, so that we can investigate them, even in its ever-changing and arguably equally rigid nature, cross-contextually too.
Thenx’s choice of medium, style of execution and expression as well as their concreted ‘why’ all have one crucial thing in common, adaptability, with a major by-product being relevance, irrefutable social relevance. I also believe it was in this adaptability, that their longevity was seeded, all those years ago.
Thenx Ladies on the Importance of Finding One’s “Why” and Growth for Young Artists
One more question. What are things that you think young black women, who are trying to find their own voices and who are pursuing this artistic route should know?
MoMo: Kitty?
Kitty: Interrogate your reason to do art. Find your ‘why’. You need to reconcile with your ‘why’. Be able to answer it in one sentence and be able to commit to it. That is going to be a key driving force in the success of your work in the art space. The ‘why’ is going to consistently be a true north for you, that will ground you when the foundation becomes weak, when the false hope disappears, when there’s no peers, when there’s no collaboration, when there’s no pay! If your ‘why’ is solid, you’ll at least have something to hold on to that can anchor you.
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Be innovative. Change is constant. There is no such thing as ‘selling out’ in art. I feel like those who use the term often, are lazy to evolve or move with the times. They get left behind and in order to make those who are propelling (excuse my French) feel shitty about going to the next level of art and whatever way to express oneself, they say “you have sold out.” That is purely for those who are fearful.
The last one for me is that you have to keep your house in order. I don’t know how many times I will say this and who needs to hear this. How you hear this is important. Keeping your house in order means, unlike other people, you are the product. You are the manufacturer. You are the branding company. You are the accountant. You are the lawyer. You are the infrastructure. So, you have to have your house in order. Not your parents who paid for your varsity fees. Not your friends that you’re working in a group. If your house is not in order, the entire idea of being an artist and having success that could possibly keep you alive, is going to fall apart.
MoMo: Lovely. I’ll go quickly. I’ll talk about maybe the less tangible things like…growth. Be okay with growing. Be okay with understanding that who you were, when you are in varsity is not going to be the person you become later in life. Be okay with that.
As cheesy as this I swear, if you don’t believe in yourself, nobody else will. Nobody will believe in your product. You are its first buyer. Its first everything.
Tumy: I also want to add documentation. If you’re not archiving, there’s no proof that you are who you say you are. I remember when we started our Facebook page and our Instagram page, it was like “Yoh, who is going to manage this?” but now, we are grateful that we did that. Documentation is huge for me. When people ask us for a press release, we know we’re not starting from scratch. There is data. There is a point of departure. When different clients or collaborators want to work with us, there is proof, and they can choose from the folders we have.
It also helps us. I remember when we used to have rehearsals where we would do vision boards together. So, going back, we can see that these are the things we prayed for, asked for, planned, and strategized for. So, when they happen now, we are not shocked because these are the things we were working towards. We can literally go back to that ‘why’. That’s important to me because this was a space of dreaming but also as space for implementation.
The second thing. Find a tribe that challenges you to show up in your brilliance. Every time I watch MoMo or Kitty or Zethu on stage, I would be like “these people are brilliant” you know? Which gave me permission to go “I’m brilliant” and show up as that person. Guys. That thing makes my life because even when I’m struggling with Excel or with another thing, I know who I am at the core (even with parenting). I go ‘Oksalayo. I know I’m a Thenx Lady!”.
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Study other artists. See what other people are doing. Take time to watch other people’s shows, to go to galleries, to listen to music because you might find similarities, synergy. So that you’re able to identify people to collaborate with, to draw inspiration from – [like] Zoë Modiga, the Theatre Duo, Jeff. So, you can see how other people are doing things. What’s the gap? What’s our value proposition? What makes us different?
Also, I think it’s play. Truly, just have fun.
For the record (in this case, the Zoom recording), what I share here is only the highlight of the almost two-hour conversation. That is how I have come to measure the extent to which I was completely engrossed by the truths that MoMo, Kitty and Tumy so openly revisited and shared.
The Thenx Ladies have not only made it a point to punctuate the realities and experiences that coexist, dent, and wound each other but, they have also placed an emphasis on the realities and stories that are often complacently overlooked within our societies and in doing so, they have validated them as something to be worthy to be seen, to beheld.
And to that I express, with great admiration for their honesty and vulnerability, Yoh, thenx!
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